Tuesday, July 23, 2013

Shark-proof Wetsuits - Questions by Mark Gray!

Source.

And it gets even better!

Mark is this dude.
A renown Shark photographer, he is above all a fellow Shark diving industry professional - and having discovered those Shark repellent wetsuits, he has taken on SAMS and is publicly, and doggedly asking precise questions about their, and I cite, scientifically designed and developed shark repellent wetsuit technology.

I c/p it lest as so often, it gets "accidentally" deleted - much like the mentioned "other posting" that has disappeared from SAMS' FB page.
  • Mark Gray So you baited up two tiger sharks and they didnt bite the bucket you had your wetsuit wrapped in...........is that the science your using?
  • Shark Attack Mitigation Systems - SAMS Mark, our response to your other post on the site today refers. To clarify, the one minute video sets out one very short extract of a complex testing process, which has been conducted independently by University of Western Australia since January. We welcome you to investigate the science in more detail. The link to which you have responded sets out the science page at the SAMS website, and the FAQ page at http://www.sharkmitigation.com/faq.html may provide more information if you would like to check it out.
  • Mark Gray So the research hasnt involved Great White Sharks? Bit irresponsible in Marketing your products and stating that they "Protect" and "hide" without testing on the major species of sharks which has cause the fatalities in Australia in recent years..........?
  • Shark Attack Mitigation Systems - SAMS Mark, we are trying to come up with a positive solution, based in science. Independent testing will be an ongoing process, potentially taking many years as we discover how the full range of predatory species respond and progressively refine the visual technology. All ocean users are at risk and discretion and caution is always necessary. We think people know that. We are offering information on what we have found so far scientifically, and an alternative to a black neoprene wetsuit so that ocean users can consider that option and make a choice. We are very clear that we are not offering guarantees. Who could? We invite you to also contribute positively to this page. We have responded to two of your posts already on the same theme. If you have suggestions as to how we could better inform, such as making the position clearer on our website or including more detail in our FAQ's then please let us know. We would welcome your constructive contributions.

  • Mark Gray Well according to your previous posting the testing program has only started in January this year with that testing program only conducted on Tiger sharks with baited drums???. Wouldnt it be wise and responsible to do further testing on different species, namely Great Whites and Bull sharks and using test subjects which honestly represent how your wetsuits present themselves to potential predator shark (ie moving dummy surfer or diver)? With all your press releases and your youtube clip you refer to your products as "Protecting" or "Hiding" from a potential shark attack and base all your supporting evidence on a test which produced very limiting results. You have entered into a full scale marketing event without doing your homework on the so call technology and the testing involved. Now if you can not answer my questions from my own experience with sharks on a regualr basis and with little common knowledge well maybe you have a take a reall good look at your product and how your market it and yourself to the community and consumers. I have asked in a previous posts questions which I and I bet alot of others out there would be asking and the last response I recieved from you was to quote "Mark, we note and respect your perspectives and views" but failed to answer the questions at hand.
  • Mark Gray I accept your invitation to contribute positively to this page. What I would like to see is some more transparency to the technology, research, and what you conveyin your marketing of your products to the general public. I would like to see these 10 questions answered: 
     1. When did the in field testing start?
    2. When did your marketing campaign start?
    3. Has there been any testing of your wetsuits on Great White and Bull sharks?
    4. Has there been any other testing procedure which has not included baiting of sharks for attracting? If so what have they been?
    5. Has there been any testing which involved moving a simulated subject wearing you wetsuit through the water (both Diving and Surfing)?
    6. What in field testing program has been used to determine how Cryptic your wetsuits are? And how are the results differ with different visibility, water colour, overhead light ?
    7. Are the Cryptic dive wetsuits loose their ability to “Hide” when a scuba tank, BCD and fins are added?
    8. How does the Cryptic dive wetsuit hide the noise and sight of the bubbles of a scuba diver?
    9. Has the results of the research conducted by the WA University been published and if so which publication?
    10. Do you personally wear your SAMS wetsuit when your diving or surfing?
  • Shark Attack Mitigation Systems - SAMS Mark,

    Responding as follows:

    1. When did the in field testing start? January 2013 – refer previous post.

    2. When did your marketing campaign start? We have not started marketing, we did a media release to let people know what we are doing on Wednesday last week, and opened up the website for review, together with this Facebook page to encourage discussion.
    3. Has there been any testing of your wetsuits on Great White and Bull sharks? Not as yet, we have covered this in your earlier posts and elsewhere in the forum. The next set of tests are proposed to be with Great Whites.
    4. Has there been any other testing procedure which has not included baiting of sharks for attracting? If so what have they been? Not at this stage, the University of Western Australia is precluded from using humans or humanoid forms of any kind and have determined that the existing testing process is satisfactory. Baiting is a necessary practicality to get any engagement with sharks in experimental conditions.
    5. Has there been any testing which involved moving a simulated subject wearing you wetsuit through the water (both Diving and Surfing)? Not as yet.
    6. What in field testing program has been used to determine how Cryptic your wetsuits are? And how are the results differ with different visibility, water colour, overhead light ? We have responded to this question elsewhere on the site yesterday and will include in our FAQ’s at our website.
    7. Are the Cryptic dive wetsuits loose their ability to “Hide” when a scuba tank, BCD and fins are added? We have responded to this in your previous post.
    8. How does the Cryptic dive wetsuit hide the noise and sight of the bubbles of a scuba diver? Obviously it doesn’t.
    9. Has the results of the research conducted by the WA University been published and if so which publication? We have responded to this in the posts above.
    10. Do you personally wear your SAMS wetsuit when your diving or surfing? Yes.

    Mark, you have now posted somewhere between 20 and 30 questions to this page in the course of a couple of days, most of them repetitious. Some include personal statements that verge on troll-like behavior. We have respectfully attempted to answer them.

    We accept that you are not a fan of what we trying to achieve. Equally there are many people who see logic in the concept and wish to explore it further. Over the last few days, this has included previous shark attack victims making contact with us to see how they can help us in our trials.

    We will not be responding to any further posts from you, we hope you understand. If you continue to post in this manner we will, with regret, be obliged to exclude you from the forum.

  • Mark Gray its a shame that after you have invited me for constructive contributions in a previous post your now no longer going to response to my valid questions regarding your product. I am all for trying to achieve a much safer aquatic environment for all to enjoy but I am not a fan on the ways and means in which your company has mislead the general public by telling them that you are scientifically backed, have the technology which has proven itself, hides you from the shark when diving and putting the fear of god into the genral public especially in your youtube clip stating "now the deadliest coast in the world". You have based your whole product line on unfinalised research (Results from 6 months of a 24 months research project) and on a single species of shark which is not the major cause of fatal attacks here in Australia, under different conditions which would not apply for which your products are inteded to be used for. Your Youtube clip and media releases do not included any of the cautionary comments which you have included in you website and your response to my questions above show that your more concerned about getting your product out into the public eye well before any of the scientific results and conclusions have been finalised which to me makes me believe that your company is more concerned with making a quick buck and not addressing the public saferty of water users. Lie to the genral public and you will be bitten on the arse but my concern is more for the safety of potential users of your products who have bought your product based on your mistruths and false advertising.
 Mark has summed up his conclusions as follows.

 Mark Gray From the SAMS face book page they finally answered done of my point blank questions.

1. The field testing is a 24 month on going process which started January 2014. Final results are still 18 months away.
2. The field testing is based on one species
of shark (tiger) which was attracted by baits
3. The field testing has not involved Great White sharks or Bull Sharks to date
4. The field testing does not include testing similar sized subject which would represent the shape and movement of a surfer or diver. According to SAMS bait is required to attract sharks to the test subjects.
5. The cryptic dive suits are tested in clear water on a bright day not results given regarding low light, cloudy, or reduced visibility water quality.
6. Cryptic dive suits also require cryptic patterns to be also applied to scuba tanks, BCD, fins to make the wetsuit cryptic.
7. Cryptic dive wetsuits will not hide the user from the sight of their bubbles or the noise of their breathing.
8. SAMS acknowledged that GWS do attack using a breach method on silhouette prey on the surface.
9. SAMS also acknowledged that sharks also use other senses other than vision to hunt prey.

On the basis that field testing was performed by using baited drums on the test subjects of two tiger sharks in clear water in bright days with this testing only in its 6 month out of 24 set aside for a finalized conclusion makes me believe that SAMS is more interested at cashing in on the fears if the general public that spending time for proper ethical research to base their products on.

And to the Oceans Institute, this:

Sounds like your cashing in with the developers and using half truths to sell wetsuits that "Protect" and "Hide" you from all species of sharks. 
This is making your research look like as joke and is tied up with a bunch of snake oiler promising the world but delivering nothing

Bingo.
As I first mocked, and then stated: it's just total BS and shameless profiteering!

Meanwhile, in la-la land...
David has unearthed yet another priceless life saving  video by Eternal Youth Empire aka Israel-Light  - how to retard ageing by a whopping 30%!!!
And this time, it's all, gasp, for free!

Behold!



But beware!
You got to clean up the pineal gland, or it's all for naught!

Yes this is (caps lock) SCIENCE!
Exactly like her striped wetsuit - and incidentally, EXACTLY like the wetsuits by SAMS!

To be continued no doubt!

11 comments:

Dr Dermatology said...

What is fascinating in Veronica Grey's sleep-without-a-pillow technique is how the end result in her case -- a glaring, frozen visage -- mirrors the effects of botox injections. From this I conclude not that sleeping-without-a-pillow slows aging, but instead miraculously mirrors the effects of botox injections. That gives those having botox treatment the option of the same dodgy end result at no cost and less laundry (no pillow cases).

OfficetoOcean said...

Sleeping without a pillow obviously explains why all homeless people look so young and fresh...

The science is rock solid yet again from this intellectual powerhouse

Angelo Villagomez said...

Everyone knows that the best way to repel sharks is to swim with a big banner that reads "Fiji Shark Sanctuary."

DaShark said...

Damn... I had, conveniently, completely forgotten about that...

DaShark said...

AND!

Every time u stand on your head you actually get YOUNGER!

Ain't REAL science a wonderful, wonderful thing - and it's so easy, too!

Malcolm Stock said...

I've heard of SAMS. Fair questions by Mark but SAMS answers actually seem alright to me?

I checked out their website and they're pretty clear that the research of shark vision is advanced and field testing is ongoing.

It just seems logical to me. Gotta be better than wearing a black suit. Personally I'd rather wear one now than wait years for field testing!

DaShark said...

Knock yerself out mate - if it makes you feel safer, by all means!

Just be aware of this.
There is ZERO evidence that those suits will repel Sharks, or make you invisible - zilch, bupkes, nada de nada!.
But as per this post, there is PLENTY of evidence that Tiger Sharks specifically target black-and-white Sea Snakes, and here you can find evidence that Great Whites in South Africa are particularly attracted to a black-and-white decoy!

So are you gonna believe the EVIDENCE or the MARKETING?

So, be careful!
Stay vigilant and don't be reckless, and you should do just fine!
Or not!

Malcolm Stock said...

Hmm personally I find those less convincing than the uni study.

Not sure why you'd put faith in that when you're super critical of the uni research...

Also is there a reason why you insist on everyone wearing black suits?

DaShark said...

What uni research.
Is there any research proving that those wetsuits prevent Shark attacks?
I am critical of a wetsuit manufacturer's unsupported claims, not of some findings from a physiology lab.

The others are FACTS - not a question of faith.

We insist on dark (not necessarily black) full body wetsuits, dark gloves and no shiny gear as we want to avoid areas of high contrast.
We do this out of experience because in poor visibility conditions, people have in the past been bitten by the large Fishes, especially on the hands.

Martin Graf said...

If you want to see for yourself how Veronica Grey defends her shark suit, check out her responses on shark year magazine. I got sucked into an exchange with her. I'm not proud of it and have severely reprimanded myself for it.

Caution, it is a complete train wreck!

http://sharkyear.com/2013/shark-repelling-wetsuit.html

DaShark said...

Yeah the gal is sure living the American dream: make up something, garnish it with bizarre clap trap, and then find some poor sod to give you money for it - the more outrageous the claims, the more suckers that'll buy into them, see here!